WFM Unfiltered

Implementations S*ck | Adam Saad

• Adam Saad • Season 1 • Episode 35

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Implementations suck. You know it. We know it. Adam Saad really knows it. And he’s not here to sugar-coat a damn thing.

In this episode of WFM Unfiltered, Irina teams up with Adam—Founder of Tech Stack Advising and host of the Scaling Out Loud podcast—to dismantle the illusion of smooth software implementations. From toxic vendor relationships to overpriced consultants and ghosting sales teams, Adam exposes the patterns that derail tech rollouts before the first config screen even loads.

You'll find out why most vendors set false expectations from day one, how implementation teams show up with zero context, and why companies are still hiring junior engineers, slapping “consultant” on their email sigs, and billing like pros. Oh, and Adam’s got a few words about broken pricing models and million-dollar answers. Let’s just say this one isn’t HR-approved.

We also dive into the real fix: setting honest KPIs, hiring based on experience (not branding), and forcing vendors to prove their promises up front—not “somewhere on the roadmap.” It’s raw, it’s practical, and it might save your next rollout.

If you’ve ever suffered through an implementation that left you questioning your life choices, this episode is your therapy.

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Irina:

Hi everyone. Welcome to WFM Unfiltered. It's gonna be unfiltered this time because my guest doesn't have the tendency to keep it quiet, and I'm so happy to be able to introduce you to Adam and to go to Florida today. But because we kick off with a topic that I'm super passionate about, I would like to hand over to Adam. Hey Adam, how are you doing?

Adam:

Doing well, thanks. Thanks for having me.

Irina:

Absolutely. It's a pleasure of mine. I've been following you for quite some time on LinkedIn and I'm happy that we finally made the time to connect. So would you mind sharing a little bit about your background and what you're currently up to?

Adam:

Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, my name's Adam Saad, I'm founder and CTO here at Tech Stack Advising. I started Tech Stack four years ago. it's been quite a ride over the last four years before starting Tech Stack. I was. At five nine for three and a half years. Top rep in 2017 I left five nine to go to Salesforce. I spent two and a half years at Salesforce serving some of their biggest customers on the planet. I was the number one global rep at Salesforce in fiscal year 21. Took that commission check, started Tech Stack, and, again, I haven't looked back.

Irina:

Great. Do you wanna share something about a new journey that you have been going on for some months now?

Adam:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, a couple months ago I started a podcast called Scaling Out Loud. it's for those who are less interested about contact Center and more interested about just business and entrepreneurship, I think we, all have access to content from Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk, but they're so far ahead of all of us that it's irrelevant. And so what I'm striving to do is put out content that are, that is relevant to who are just starting their business. Thinking of starting a business, growing from one to 5 million, 5 million to 10. We haven't grown past 10 million, so I can't talk about what, life looks like after 10 million. But but under 10 million we can talk about.

Irina:

And I personally want to tell everyone, please follow Adam on LinkedIn. Please follow the podcast because I get so many people coming to me and asking for advice because they wanna kick out their journey, but they don't have the confidence. They don't know where to start. So those are resources that absolutely will be great for you to, tag along, follow and listen to somebody who has already done these things. And with having all that said, let's do a full circle and start talking about something that it feels like you have some experience about. And this is implementations what's your opinion about implementations? How do they usually go?

Adam:

Implementation suck. We just make those suck less.

Irina:

Why? Why would you say that?

Adam:

Like you, I, I, have an opinion that going to market for software and shopping for software is a little bit fun, right? You get to go talk to all these different vendors and see what the vendors are all up to look at the different features you get to get excited about what you're purchasing, and then. You sign the contract and then your sales team goes by, they, you might never see them again and you're now assigned this implementation team that knows nothing about you. They know nothing about what you're trying to accomplish. They ask you all the same questions that you've told your sales rep for the last three months, and all the excitement just like drains, just goes away and now you're in this like really boring, complex. High, high resource intensive activity for the next three to six months. And it, just sucks. And, I think there's an opportunity to fix that.

Irina:

Okay, so I wanna chip in here because as somebody who has worked on quite some implementations, myself and on the side of the vendor, on side of the client, and as a user myself. I totally agree and one thing that personally annoys me as a user is the charming sales guys that shows up and they're like so romantic in a business way and promise you everything. And then you're right at the moment when you actually sign that contract, they're like, poof, and you never hear about them again. You realize that it's like a toxic relationship. The debt you cannot get out of, like you need at least seven attempts to basically cancel that relationship and get out. And I wanna dig into basically the solution mode already. So what can we recommend to people? How do we fix that first phase of knowing the requirements that basically our vendor needs to be aware of?

Adam:

Yeah. I, can tell you what we do here at Tech Stack because I do believe it is the solution. I firmly believe that the implementation team that is going to be doing your implementation, they should be involved in the evaluation and in the sales process, right? So here at Tech Stack, we like to get involved early. In your, evaluation experience, we like at least halfway through, right? You've, maybe you've done the first demo and the vendor's been shortlisted. Okay. Get us involved so we can at least have context on what's driving your decision and when we have context on what's driving your decision and why you picked X, Y, Z vendor during the implementation. Like in our customers have seen this, we have said, Hey Irina, we cannot gloss over this one feature. I know we're all tired and I know this is hard, but. Three months ago when we did the demo, you specifically said you needed this feature for X, Y, Z, 1, 2, 3. We cannot forget about it. we have to make sure we implement it and implement it, right? So you can get the ROI and you can be happy with the product. This is why you bought it in the first place. And that's just one piece of context and one real life example of, why it's so important to be involved during the actual sales and evaluation process as an, implementation team.

Irina:

But what happens if the vendor themselves do not involve you and they just pass on that client onto you after the sale? Because this is the case in many, places, and personally, I'm still struggling with that and I'm, sorry, Adam. I, do hope that right now having you here, you can prove us all wrong and you can actually share some tips and trick because in a lot of the cases. Implementation partners sometimes suck as well because they don't know what they're doing and they're just trying to scheme around and not being transparent with what the software can and can do because they're trying to make the vendor happy to retain business and they're doing whatever they can, but they're not honest. So what do you do in case. Of the vendor implementation partner relationship is

Adam:

Yeah. No, it's tough. Yeah, you, nailed something interesting. I do believe that there's a little bit of a conflict of interest that exists in the industry because systems integrators, these implementation partners, you, they essentially have two avatars or two customers. One is the manufacturer of the vendor, one is the customer. And the way that we've solved it here at Tech Stack is by, really aligning with our core values. Number one, trust, number two, customer success, number three, velocity. And we simply just say no. opportunities where we can't deliver on our core values to the customer. We are so customer centric, customer success, again, being our second core value. So a vendor brings us in at the very last minute we have no context, we don't know if we can be successful. And if we don't know for a fact that we can be wildly successful, the answer is we're just not interested in the business. in a unique position where we can do that because we have no debt, we have no investors. We bootstrapped this. We're highly profitable. are growing responsibly, and we're picking and choosing the clients we wanna work with because again, we're only in a, we only wanna put ourselves in a position where our customers can be wildly successful.

Irina:

I want to stop you here with turning business down, and it's okay if you want me to edit this after the recording, but I'm gonna mention something on our conversation previous time before we kicked off the recording. And you said that part of your vision or strategy is to. Maybe limit the vendors that you're currently focused on and working with. And this is a, huge irritation of mine when I see implementation partners that are trying to work with everyone, and then they end up having consultants that are not proficient or really knowledgeable about pretty much anything. They know bits and pieces here and there. So I wanna hear more about this aspect.

Adam:

Yeah, absolutely. From from a business strategy perspective, the definition of focus, in my opinion is the, elimination of alternatives, So you can only be focused. If you eliminate alternative options. And so what we're trying to do is focus on our core our core partners. We have about three of them that we're highly focused on. And quite frankly, we're not supply constrained on the amount of partners that wanna work with us. I could spend my whole day talking to partners that pitch us on why we should work with them. I don't need more. we're in search of customers, not suppliers and, partners. And then you, already said it. I. That's business strategy. And then from a customer strategy perspective and delivering on our core value of customer success, you simply cannot be an expert. By definition, if you open up your trench coat and have 400 products that you are a quote unquote expert on, simply, it simply cannot be done. Even the biggest companies in the world have expertise and focus on their products. They don't sell or support everything on planet Earth. It, simply doesn't make sense. So like when I tell my customers or when I talk to my customers to say, Hey, you know what? If you're looking for somebody that can help you with cybersecurity and network connectivity and telecom and CRM and all these things, look somewhere elsewhere else. But if you want a boutique white glove partner that is the best at contact center on planet Earth. That's gonna be me. And if you need a recommendation for somebody else to help you build your network, I, have friends, right? You need WFM expert. I got a friend I'm talking to right now that I can point you to.

Irina:

Okay, so I wanna dig in deeper into this one because I really, like your philosophy and your strategy about focus, but. Currently what's happening in quite a lot of, especially global customers and in their head is, okay, we want to actually unify our process. We wanna unify ways of working across all our locations, and we're gonna go into a single system that does everything. Unfortunately, the reality is that when you go to different locations, when you go to different teams, to culture, to set ups, sometimes a certain functionality that works in location A does nothing for location B, and you quickly realize that. That unification and that a single system or a single source might not necessarily bring as much value as you think. So don't you think there might be a little bit of risk if you focus on something there and you're missing opportunity to work with somebody that can be aiding that kind of a missing component?

Adam:

Yeah. I think this is yeah. I'm understanding the question, right? This is a platform versus point solution discussion,

Irina:

Yeah.

Adam:

And what I'll say to this is it's not about choosing the best, it's about choosing what's right for you, right? I like, I'll, the analogy I'll use is like food. Everyone has a preference on their favorite food and because maybe you like seafood and I like steak, it doesn't mean either of us are wrong. It's just differing, opinions on what is best for us. And if you have an organization that likes the platform they believe that's good for them for whatever reason, maybe it's a commercial benefit, maybe it's an overhead benefit, maybe it's IT debt benefit. Good. That's your preference, and I can guide you towards the best platform possible. if, you're alternatively a point solution organization and you want the best of breed point solutions, that's also cool with me, right? You're just gonna have risks in commercial and maybe technical debt, maybe shadow it, maybe the results of the actual pla, the best of breed point solutions will make up for that. So it's, to me it's, it is a preference. I don't know that there's a right or wrong answer as long as you know the pros and cons and you can manage the pros and cons.

Irina:

Hmm. I like that. Okay. I also like the analogy. Okay. I'm gonna bring you back to the implementation that you makes a class, because I really, like that. It reminds me of, it. Adam Grant that was saying something similar about jobs, I don't know.

Adam:

I dunno, but I do his books.

Irina:

Yes. So you know what, one of the things that it is, how do I put it? It's the most challenging in implementations for what I have seen is the level of preparation from client side, because you can have. The best process in place and you know your stuff and you know the activities and you do as much possible to prepare the clan. Once you kick in that implementation, there is business usual. People start being insecure. They're less confident. They want sometimes, often, and I'm speaking about WFM here for example, they're trying to replicate their current ways of working in the solution that they have invested in. And then we're ending up people fighting the change itself or not wanting to adopt the solution or being insecurity. This is gonna affect their jobs in a negative way, and it's spiraled down and it becomes that snowball bullshit effect. So what's your experience with that and how do we, solve that?

Adam:

Yeah. It's hard, right? It's a challenge that I think every, everyone faces the change management. We talked about how, resource draining these implementations are on both sides. Number one, like one of the things, because we're involved in the evaluation and sales process, we can constantly prepare the customer for what's going to happen. And we take our own notes. So a lot of the requirements we're gathering during the actual evaluation process before the customer even knows that we're scoping this thing. When I look at the most successful implementations we've done, the customer has an assigned project manager, right? And so after having done a couple dozen implementations, it's actually now a requirement. will only do the implementation with you, is it if you, as the customer assign a project manager on your side to this project, right? It can't be some business, product owner. It can't be a business user, it can't be somebody in it, an actual project manager needs to be assigned. then from the change management perspective it's challenging. we like to do with our customers is we like to do. Especially on these, everyone has a tight timeline. We like to do a concept called MVP plus one, right? So what is the actual what's your minimum viable product that you need to deliver to the business to make them happy? And then what's plus one feature that we can add on top that would move the needle from a business KPI perspective? And so like we recently did one with a credit union and MVP plus one. The plus one was actually workforce management. It, right? Another one was, we did it with a, healthcare organization. The plus one for them was auto QA because they had all these people and quality qm listening to phone calls. And so the hypothesis was, okay, if we can do the MVP. Plus auto qa, then we can reduce headcount or repurpose those people to other parts of the business. And that repurpose of human capital budget, we can fund other projects within the contact center to do phase two, phase three, phase four, So we, do a lot of MVP plus one.

Irina:

I really like that approach. I am not sure I have heard that anywhere else, so I really appreciate also the tip of adding a project manager.'cause this is definitely something that's a huge issue when you go into implementations. The thing that I'm how do I put it? I want to drill down a bit, is when you're putting those success criteria in the start. A lot of the times, even the customers themselves don't necessarily have something very articulate in, their heads what they wanna achieve. They know they, they want to have a new technology for whatever reasons, licenses expired, or I don't know, they have new functionalities or there, whatever there reason is. But sometimes, even the best technology, again, if not adopted correctly. It'll bounce back and they're not gonna be happy with the solution or they're not gonna use the solution properly. So how can we make the mutual success for the implementation partner or vendor or whoever is delivering implementation and for the client, what do we set up from the start as success criteria?

Adam:

I think this, this is something we say internally. We don't typically say this publicly, but I'll just say it is people want to be told what to do. wanna be told what their KPI should be, right? They may or may not have an idea, but at the end of the day, they're looking at us to be the experts. And if we're gonna claim to be a player experts, then we should have a point of view or an opinion on what their KPI should be if they don't know them. And so the big KPI for us that we, usually assign to our projects for on behalf of our customers is either customer lifetime value on like inbound customer service. Or customer acquisition costs on the sales side, right? Because if you talk to any CFO, they do care about LTV to CAC ratio, and you're constantly trying to increase your customer lifetime value or decrease your CAC or both. And the contact center has a big role to play in that. And so if we can push those levers on LTV to CAC ratio and all the components that go in there. Then we will all be wildly successful and we can make our customers, our stakeholders, look like heroes to the CFO, the CIO, the CEO. And that's all we're trying to do is make, everyone else a hero.

Irina:

I again, there's so much. Knowledge and so much great tips that you're sharing right now. And I keep on reflecting while I'm listening to you to what I have experienced. And you're exactly right. People go into those conversations and they're expecting you to tell them, okay, why don't we focus on this or put this, and this is gonna lead to that and that, but I also have heard a lot of times from customers, hold on. Who are you to tell me what do I need? This is why we're paying you the money and you just basically need to deliver what I want from you. And a lot of times what they want to be delivered or the way that they want the system to work is wrong. Sorry. It's not how the system is supposed to be used. And that's the tricky part for us. So how do you work with that?

Adam:

Yeah, I think we do a really good job of building credibility and trust during the evaluation process, right? This con continues to come back to being and participating in the vendor selection and evaluation process because if we can go in there and, ask high quality questions that yield high quality conversations that yield. that, that essentially build trust and credibility. can help define early on the KPIs that we should all be thinking about, and then when we go to the actual implementation and configuration part, we can go back and say, Hey, remember the whole point of this was to either reduce human capital cost or decrease churn because we found that customers that have a lower than eight CSAT have a three x higher likelihood to churn. I'm making stuff up now, but. We can always point back to the KPIs and defend our position on why we're configuring things. way we are. I tell customers all the time, we can push buttons on a keyboard all day long and click the mouse and configure things, but if we don't move your KPIs, then it's pointless. And if you just want some, like a, mindless robot to just configure this for you, go, offshore, go somewhere else. The, these people will charge you 50 bucks an hour. We're$350 an hour for a reason. We are a white glove, high value company and it, we can only back that up if we help move your KPIs.

Irina:

While i'm listening to you, I'm noticing that you are referring quite a lot and you're always going back to the beginning and you're speaking a lot about spending enough time and asking a lot of qualifying questions and stuff. And I can say from my experience that this is spot on because most vendors, implementation partners, whoever they're interested in the sale, they are interested in the big bucks. So I always think as an end user and what I'm seeing that quite a lot of times you're speaking to the sales guys and they're talking to you, and then they're bringing the implementation consultants or the onboarding consultants, and they're like, yeah, The system can do that and can do this. And I, yeah. We absolutely can cover this. And they're throwing dust in your eyes. And then once implementation kick in, you realize that those requirements. Literally the core detailed requirements that you would need to configure your system appropriately are, missing. And nobody actually spend time or attention to dig deep into understanding can we actually apply that system? Would it work? How would it work? So one thing that for me, it's quite a big differentiator in your philosophy is exactly going back to that discovery phase and qualifying and understanding what you're dealing with. And I find that this is the respectful thing to do for not only your business but for the client themselves. And this is how you can basically show that you know what you're speaking about. So I don't know if you have that, but very easy for me when I'm talking to a vendor. I can probably within couple of minutes. Say that they're full of shit, like very easily. They're raising the red flags with just showing sheer arrogance, but knowing that there is no substance behind it.

Adam:

Yeah, we, used to call that Dan so I was on the sales side, right? I've been part of these, funny conversations where you, we call it dancing, right? You dance around the question.

Irina:

Yes.

Adam:

and I remember being at, couple, a couple lives ago, having to dance around the questions. And then I was on with. I met with a product leader at one of our partners and I asked'em, I asked him, I was like, Hey, can your system show me agent occupancy out of the box? And this product leader started just going on this Tyr, like just saying all these buzzwords and clicking around in the system. And I was like, whoa, Wait, dude, answer my question and I just saw you clicking on random buttons. That's not gonna work on me, dude. cut the crap and actually answer the question and sh and give me undeniable evidence on whether or not you can do this. he just sat there with his jaw on the floor. He is oh, The answer is no, we can't. And I'm like, okay, dude. That's okay. just give me the straight answer. I think first of all, scared of confrontation. And I think a lot of people want to be nice. And they're scared of being disliked. I'm not scared of being disliked. I can, think there's a difference between being nice and being kind, and I believe that the truth is kind and so just tell me the truth and we can all be kind with each other, right? I'm not, in the business of being a nice, wanting to be liked guy, like I'm just after the truth.

Irina:

I like you more and more, Adam, and I was just about to say that. I find that both you and I have those type of red personalities, which are a little bit more confrontational or direct. Let's put it direct, and they're like, no, I, like to say no bullshit mentality. I can cope with a lot as long as you respect me enough to be honest and transparent with me, and I really like that you're addressing that because. The issues. A lot of us that are dealing, again with vendors and partners and implementations are the complete lack of transparency and the bullshit promise given by the vendors. So another thing that I'm just a little bit cautious about is. A lot of times we're talking about roadmaps and the vendors are talking about in one year we're gonna deliver bullshit a exhibit B, and that never happens. But I'm wondering how do you deal with that? Because you as implementation partner can only promise as much, and we know that this delivery sometimes is coming from the vendor. So if you can't customize that on your end, so what? What do you do?

Adam:

Yeah, we, actually just dealt with this with one of our customers. They are a manufacturer of hot tubs. You might have heard of'em. And they were they ended up picking a vendor that had just acquired a company. And we did, like all we can do is deliver the information and provide our opinion and guidance, but at the end of the day, it's up to the customer to make the decision as long as they have the information to make the decision. What we did was we connected the product leader at the vendor. We connected them with the CIO of our customer. just said, Hey, let's have an open and honest conversation about the roadmap, what the plans are, and closed doors, me and the customer said, Hey, you know what? Let's just double, you know this, the vendor said a year, let's just pretend it's two years. You that's just my advice. Double the time and just plan for, it taking two years instead of one. And this is what your life is gonna be and there are gonna be challenges and. Just believe half of what they say and double the timeline. And if you're still cool with it, then you're cool with it, right? And so that, that's all we can do is del connect to the dots, deliver the information, give an opinion under promise, over deliver. I know that's a lot of buzz words, but we just, went through this with the, with our customers.

Irina:

But this is the truth, right? It's ultimately what you can do. I would much rather over deliver and under promise than the other way around. So I, appreciate that you're saying that. So tell me for, from a client perspective, what do they have to keep in mind when they're in those discussions with vendors and implementation partners? What do they have to. I don't know be prepared for or watch out for, because there is, we know it's a struggle on the market, so everyone is fighting for that one customer. So this is why a lot of companies are over promising. So how can they be prepared? I.

Adam:

Twice as long, twice as hard as they're telling you is probably a good way to just frame it. You know what, like I have a fundamental belief, and this is my biggest challenge right now. My fundamental belief is that professional services pricing is completely broken. You have vendors and SI partners delivering, massively inflated quotes in terms of how many hours it takes to deliver, and then slashing the prices on the hourly rate to make it look like the customer's getting a good deal. We this last week we just dealt with this, so we, partnered with a particular vendor that quoted a customer 230 hours for a project. My engineers looked at the project and was like. This is gonna take 50 hours. And so what this other vendor did is okay, it's 230 hours at$150 an hour, and that's a good deal'cause you're getting this awesome hourly rate. And we're like, no, it's actually gonna take 50 hours but our actual price is$350.'cause we have great engineers that are all, experts. And the customer just said, Adam, thank you for just telling the truth. Like I thought, I knew it didn't take 230 hours. I couldn't imagine what they would be doing spending this time. she was like, we're signing with you because at least you were honest and you're at, you're probably too expensive, but at least you're honest about what it actually is gonna take. And so this is a big struggle, I think, in the market is like measuring stick of how we're measuring PS engagements is broken. And I'm on a mission to fix that.

Irina:

I, am smiling, but inside I am cheering for that because I totally agree with you. And one of my favorite things is when I'm talking to, to a vendor and they're telling me, okay, the, price for the implementation is gonna be X and we would need five weeks to deploy it. And it's gonna be a daily effort. And I know I am hands-on experience specialist. I know exactly how much it would take. And I'm like, you are full of shit. At least charge me for your effort. Don't charge me for the hours because then you're insulting me, insulting my professionalism. Knowing how much it's gonna take. So actually this is one thing that not a lot of customers that have dealt with are prepared to, to face. And I, actually really appreciate that you're throwing this out there. So to everyone that's listening to us, please pay attention to the pricing and ask exactly what's involved with that. And actually, I would say that most times I. Potentially like working more with implementation partners or consulting companies that are building their business for that reason. They're fighting to build their business and they are paying much more effort for you and for your success than a huge company that basically is rotating their personnel all the time. And it's just ending up like. Charging you for nothing. So before I let you go, Adam, I have one more question for you and I'm gonna try to throw you a bit off our path. I have an issue sometimes with engineers onboarding consultants, specialists because sometimes. Oftentimes there are people who do not have experience but are recruited with the title. They're given a lot of money and they're basically thought and they're learning on the expense of a client. So how are you dealing with that? Does your people have experience?

Adam:

Yeah. Our lead engineer has nine years of five nine implementation experience before we hired him. Another AI specialist is on, one of the, largest banks on planet earth. we strictly, we overpay for experience and that's okay. like I exactly what you said, I like my customer's not paying a$350 an hour rate for my, people to learn. We only hire a players that have undeniable experience and evidence that they are who they say they are. And that's one of the reasons why we charge so much. And I, I don't wanna put myself in a box. Maybe one day we'll start hiring junior engineers, but again, like same as partners. There's no supply constraint on good engineers. We have 20 in my inbox, knocking on my door to begging to work here. We get to pick and choose the best ones.

Irina:

Okay. I, like that. And I'm quite often referring to the fact that a lot of people are looking for those positions as a consultant, as an engineer in a vendor site as a career growth because they're paid quite a lot of money. But we know, so that. There are a lot of big consulting companies that are hiring someone straight out without any experience, but they're slapping the title consultant. They're sending them to the client for charging whatever amount of dollars per hour, and they know nothing but they carry the brand with them.

Adam:

They carry the brand and let's just like name like one of the big four let's just call it Deloitte, right? Like it, I think undeniable. Yeah. Sorry. Am I not allowed to say that? They, they have a great training program, I, think that's undeniable. They do a great job in, of investing in their people and teaching their people. And like we all know, right? When you get a presentation from one of the big four, it was a bunch of junior rep consultants, whatever you want to call'em, who created the deck, had to spend all, all night working on it, getting feedback from the managing partner. Please fix. With no guidance, just make it better and then the partner delivers it and that's fine. That's, just a business model, for us. We just hired somebody who has 15 years of experience in Contact Center operations, but she has no experience on like being on the vendor side. she has the experience and the operations and contact center side, and all we have to do is train her on how to, just for customers and to be client facing. And one of the frameworks we use here internally, and I know we're over time, but the framework we use is, we call it million dollar questions and million dollar answers, right? So if, you have a customer that asks you a question. Pretend that customer has paid you a million dollars to answer that question give a million dollar answer. And what is a million dollar answer? here's, the answer. Here are the variables. Here are the considerations. Here are the risks. This is how long it's gonna take. Here's screenshots, here's directions, do you wanna meet about it tomorrow? That's a million dollar answer. And so that can be taught, and so that's what we're doing.

Irina:

I enjoyed that conversation so much. Is there any final words of advice, anything else that you would like to mention?

Adam:

I think we covered a lot of great things. Again, if you're interested in business find me on on Spotify, scaling out loud if you're interested in contact center professional services. That's where I post about that on LinkedIn. and just feel free to reach out if you have questions.

Irina:

Thank you so much for that conversation, Adam, and thank you for being so open and transparent and for addressing stuff. Some others are not daring to speak about. So it was really my pleasure to have you on the show.

Adam:

Yeah, thanks for having me.

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