WFM Trends | Jim Simmons

What does the future of WFM look like, and why is it still misunderstood at the executive level? Jim Simmons, a leader in workforce management and operational strategy, joins the show to unpack the biggest trends shaping WFM in 2025. With decades of experience optimizing workforce strategies, Jim breaks down why WFM teams struggle for recognition and what it takes to earn a real seat at the executive table.

From AI hype to the hard truths about automation, Jim doesn’t hold back. We discuss whether AI can actually replace forecasting, how companies are getting "efficiency" all wrong, and why flexibility in scheduling is no longer a nice-to-have—it's a necessity. If you're tired of seeing WFM treated like an afterthought, this episode is for you.

Expect candid discussions on leadership buy-in, the reality of AI-driven staffing models, and what it really takes to move beyond basic admin functions into a strategic powerhouse. If you want to future-proof your WFM career, you can't afford to miss this one.

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Transcript

Irina: 0:18

Hello, my name is Irina and welcome to WFM Unfiltered. Today we're going to Ohio and I'm gonna be chatting with Jim who has some very cool things to, to share with us. So it'll be the topic of WFM trends and what's important in 2025. But before we kick off with the discussion, Jim, the stage is yours. Can you introduce yourself?

Jim: 0:44

Sure, thanks for having me today. Jim Simmons been in the contact center industry for, for 26 years. Most of that in operations and most of that time in operations in WFM. So I've seen a lot over the years. Certainly started out way back in the day, and very excited to be here with you today.

Irina: 1:07

Thank you for accepting my invitation and if you came up with a good topic, one that I feel very passionate to ran about because I'm very suspicious when a lot of people are talking about trends in WFM. So, so tell me, what do you foresee will be the new things happening and what is some cool new stuff that we can chat about?

Jim: 1:31

I, you know, I, I took a different round. I've thought about this a lot lately and I feel like there's always two angles when folks talk about trends. I. tends to be technology. What's new coming out? What is the, the new car look like? Or, you know, so we and WFM we're no different. Right? What are systems doing? Certainly over the past couple of years, there's been a lot of discussion around AI and what it can do. What I wanted to focus on, and what I've really thought about most lately is how, as a profession, WFM, is changing in my opinion. And what I think we can do as professionals to facilitate that progression. You know, like I said, I've been doing it for a while and, and certainly WFM of a quarter, century ago is very different than WFM of today. I recently posted an article about this, about the three things I see happening with WFM and I think they're all positives. One is. Where do we get a seat at the table? Especially at the executive and senior senior leadership table. Over the years, we all know WFM is generally a cost center, right? You, you get butts in the seats, you make sure. We're taking calls and life is good. Where I haven't seen WFM participate as much as as we could or should, in discussions about strategy, right? How are we helping the business grow? How are we helping the business strategize? Are we looking at major strategic initiatives and asking ourselves, what downstream impact does this have workforce management? So I think that's one of the big trends. I've seen, I hear more folks talking about it. I see folks like you talking about it and some of the other guests that you've had on. So not only is it something I'd like to see, it's something that I've heard a lot more about and I even see that in hiring, right? As I look at roles that are being posted and talk to folks, a lot of roles are asking for that strategic component in their WFM leaders.

Irina: 3:48

It is actually a pretty cool angle that you're bringing and I just, a couple of days ago I had a chat about it, exactly the same thing that I see. Even if we're parking the topic for a technology, that the adoption of technology seems to be increased for the last couple of years, and my perspective is exactly the same that we're seeing. A lot more conversations opening about the topic. People are starting to vocalize what WFM is, and I started thinking that when my career started in planning, I had heard literally nothing about it. Like I couldn't even find anything in Google, maybe something here and there about their lung, and that was it. And you should have figured it yourself. The thing that always interests me is when you're saying sit at the table and you're seeing that more of a trend that people or maybe organizations are starting to be like, Hmm, let's chat about it. I have a little bit of a different question for you. Don't you think it's a bit too late with the adoption of AI and with the conversations that the whole? WFM is changed and we're gonna be eliminating agents and potentially automating everything. Don't you think it's a little bit late for us to ask for a seat at the table?

Jim: 5:13

That's a, that's a great point. And you know, I've had some discussions around that. My, my personal belief is no, it's not. And I think, and, and one of the things I talk about is wf m's value in integrating technology. and I do believe there is a shift. How we utilize technology versus a human agent. But I don't believe in the foreseeable future, we're eliminating all agents, right? We've all had those experiences with bots, and I think it's gonna get better, but let's face it, it's still primarily in its infancy. And so I think it's important for WFM, and I think that one of the reasons it's a great opportunity for us to come to the table is because we can understand that impact. We're very well positioned as a profession to talk about how can and should be integrating technology. So if we talk about the leveraging an agent. A bot and say an IVR, right? All of those things have an impact on the capacity of the workforce, and that's gonna be critical. So who better to understand that, right? So if you go out as a company and decide you're gonna implement some cool new AI technology, and it's gonna take out all sorts of calls and it's gonna make customers happy, the first people you should talk with are gonna be your WFM people, even if everything goes off without a hitch. Why are they not involved in that strategic discussion? Right. One of the other reasons I think that's important and why now is a great time for us to step up to the table is that oftentimes People and businesses tend to look at reduction of agents as a, just a straight cost savings, which I get it, it's a business and, and we need cost savings. What I always try to ask myself, I. Over the years was can we redeploy folks differently or can we bring in other work? I think again, that's a great way having WFM at the table as we have these discussions, is to say, Jim is no longer required to take as many calls. What else can we have Jim do to help facilitate the discussion? It be some backline work? Could it be some chat work? Right? Is there some other vein of, of opportunity for us to work within? And the WFM team comes to the table and talks through those options and opportunities.

Irina: 7:49

This is such a great point, and actually I have seen that time over and over again is that our first step usually is like, let's suck people. Let's bring the cost down. So let's start the rehiring process. Again in two months when we realized that, oh my God, we maybe shouldn't have done that. So it's like that vicious cycle that it's like, we don't need the people. Oh, hold on. We actually had the people, but we sacked them for no reason at all, just because we thought that things are gonna be looking much better than they are currently. But okay. This is usually the struggle in a lot of companies, maybe even in a little bit of a smaller organizations, when. There isn't a strategic role for A WFM at best. You have a administration position, somebody who does the schedule. Often there is no forecasting being done. Real time is done by team leads. So when the situation is like that, how do you convince the senior leadership that, okay, we actually have to participate in that conversation?

Jim: 8:57

I, I think it's, it's relevant to remember. There's no one size fits all solution,

Irina: 9:03

Mm-hmm.

Jim: 9:04

the majority of companies I find in the position that you just described are a couple challenges. Usually they're looking for growth, right? Maybe not always. So I think having someone who can think strategically. About your growth and brings all of the things that we value in WFM, right? Analytical mindset, strategic thinking, forward thinking. All of those type of things are what we find in the WFM profession. That's what they seek, right? So bring that into the conversation. So I think bringing that in, even if you're a company that doesn't. Necessarily currently have that need. As you think about strategy, go find those people within your organization that fit that bill because at some point you are most likely looking to expand to a point where you do need that strategic role. I think the other component is, and this is a big opportunity, I think, for the industry, both as professionals, but also as a technology is. Our goal right in WFM, if you talk to any professional and say, what's your best day? Right? What does it look like? And you know, some folks may say, Hey, it's when my forecast is spot on, or I didn't have anybody call in. But those are variations on. I have exactly the right amount of people at exactly the right time with precisely the right skillset, right? So it's that top of the funnel. So if you think about those smaller organizations that all exist, that probably I. Have that same issue, but don't have the money or the experience, uh, in-house to take care of that. How are we in the industry leveraging it so they can pool some resources, right? How do you create that top of the funnel that works across some industries that might be a little bit smaller and might not have the economies of scale that other larger organizations do? But need that economy of scale just as much as anybody. So I think we should be rethinking the dynamics a little bit, right? That's BPOs, that's technology companies. How do you fill that top of the funnel so that you're ready to cherry pick that whenever and wherever you need it.

Irina: 11:22

Okay. Brilliant. I like that angle. Okay, we, we've been talking about getting a seat at the table and how this becomes a little bit more popular for us from WFM perspective. What else? What do you foresee would be the new things happening in 2025?

Jim: 11:40

I think a, a unique perspective is, and this is probably a little bit bigger of a stretch for a lot of WFM professionals is thinking about. The customer experience and its relationship to the agent experience. Going back to my early days of WFM, we were, you know, I, I wouldn't say there were many people that were agents that were big fans of WFM, right? We were the folks who said, Hey, that's, that's the schedule you get. Sorry. You can't take a break now. You know? I mean, we were just. Here's the rule, follow the rules and you'll be good. Right. Uh, I definitely see that changing for the better. I, I think that those are all good things. We now know that the employee experience is a big part of what any company is and should be. There's lots of data that exists that says. happy agent creates and helps maintain a happy customer. So I think within WFM, we should be thinking about how do we apply those things, right? So instead of just creating a schedule, going, here's your schedule, stick to it. We'll be good. We have to talk. How do we build more flexibility into that process? Like I told, like I mentioned a moment ago, do you take that top of the funnel and make it as easily accessible as possible? How do we focus on AI and the technology that does exist to do things that we've historically dreamed of but haven't been able to do? One of the examples I give is often talked about you have customer A who has this personality type, right? You know, they just want to get their stuff done, and you have agent B who might be a great match for them, right? They don't have a, a lot of. Additional things to talk about. So you may want to get them together in any interaction because you know that customer's gonna have a better interaction with that agent. Historically, that's been very difficult to facilitate you just as a human. We can't manage that that effectively with the information we now have and the data we have available, and the advent of AI doing something like matching that customer. an agent that is going to better service that current need is much easier.'cause there's so much data to go through and so much information to be had in almost real time, if not real time, that can make that decision that a human just can't do it. I think leaning into that, understanding that, advocating for that, and not just thinking of ourselves as, Hey, once I put a person in a seat on the phone, my job is done.

Irina: 14:28

Mm-hmm.

Jim: 14:28

that's the case anymore for WFM.

Irina: 14:30

I, I am getting excited here and I'm gonna actually spin that from another perspective for me when we're talking about. Employee engagement and employee hap happiness, we're often connecting it with WFM tools and for me, historically, what WFM tools have been providing is kind of the bare minimum. Okay. Most of agents can swap shifts if there is a subset of requirements that both agents are meeting. Maybe they can request vacations, maybe they can request some sort of shift changes and that is like, cool, that's so amazing. But then you are entering into implementation and then you discover that even those, for me, basic functionalities do not often work very well, but we are still struggling understanding. Okay. What do we do if we don't have a WFM two and we need to do something manually or use in Excel? And is that enough to guarantee agent happiness? And the thing that really annoys me, frustrates me is that I. We don't even ask. There are so few organizations and teams that are actually involving the advisors in the process and checking, okay, just let me know. How do you see it? Tell me what's happening on the floor. Tell me what's happening in your daily work and how do you think we can change it and reflect that in the schedule so it can be better for the business and better for you guys. And actually the trend that I'm seeing that. WFM teams are starting to understand that agent happiness. It's more than, okay, you can swap your shifts goodbye. That's fine. And it's a little bit more than, okay, actually human beings, they have lives. Okay, it's a business, but if we work with happy people, maybe they're gonna be doing better job. So that's a trend that lately I have been seeing and. Also WFM vendors are kind of exploring different ways to bring a lot more options in the picture. But again, I would advocate seriously, everyone just ask, make surveys involved. Advisors do regular checks. Okay? Is it what they were expecting from the schedules? Are they happy with the shift swaps being. I don't know the greatest spark on earth or is there something else that we could be doing? And the other thing that I wanted to pay attention is the personality types with the customers. And this is so important and something that, as you mentioned, we haven't even paid attention historically to that aspect. And for WFM, it has always been the case of somebody calls, somebody picks. This is where we stop. But right now, and I'm always thinking from the position of a customer, if I know that Jim is my guy and he is going answer my question, and I really want him to deliver the answer to my question in minute and a half and say our goodbyes, I want Jim to pick up the phone. I want him, I don't want someone who is gonna walk me through Twenty Five minutes of bullshit and lose my time and I'll lose my shit on phone and end up calling again. So I really, really like that. You have mentioned that, and this is something that I don't see often being mentioned in.

Jim: 18:05

Well, and, and it goes back to the other two elements, the first being seat at the table and the other helping integrate technology and what I challenge. WFM professionals, especially those folks who are newer to it, like yourselves, and I say newer because you haven't been around doing it for you 26, 27 years, is we, we tend to limit ourselves. So I'll give you an example from my, you know, way back in the day, if we limit ourselves to just leveraging the WFM tools, create a schedule, make sure the breaks are set. That's all we're ever gonna do. At one point in the early aughts, as I started looking at, it was just part of my job. I was very fortunate that I had the leeway to do this. was tasked with looking at voice and speech technologies. So I started years ago looking at speak tech, speech technology, implemented the business's first speech. built the whole program out and it fit within the wheelhouse. And one of the reasons I was given that task was because we wanted to understand more about the context of the call. So that's not something that traditionally would've been a WFM role, but. That's an example of where I'm talking about a seat at the table, right? Hey, if we want to know why customers are calling and we wanna look and understand trends better, right? That's a WFM conversation waiting to be had.

Irina: 19:44

Yeah.

Jim: 19:44

implemented that technology. Now we are able to glean so much more data as a WFM and within my role, I took advantage of all of that to. Now to go back to the ex and the CX is, I now have both sides of the conversation and I can understand when, where, and how the customer's getting frustrated. What we often forget though, is let me listen to what the agent is talking about. So back to your point about, hey, is it just about, is my schedule good? Do I get the right breaks? Maybe, maybe not. But another anecdote was, My last two years at, at my last company, of the tools we implemented was a wellness tool. and that came directly from hr. We, we have this wellness tool, but I go back to, we worked it through WFM because what the tool did was looked for specific. Times when we thought the agent might be feeling stressed. Um, and so we looked at it and what would happen is if that flag got triggered, this tool would come in and automatically say, Hey, do you need a quick break? And the agent could take that break. And we had implemented another automation tool at about the same time. What was interesting is to make sure that the agents were on the lookout for these little messages. We tried not to be, too invasive on their screen. So in order to make sure that they paid attention and they looked at for the message, we gave them one additional break a month. It was one five minute break. And we did it only when there was a little bit of, I. The feedback we got on that one additional break was some of the best feedback we got across the whole implementation. So my point in saying that is it doesn't necessarily take a lot as long as an agent knows that you're an advocate for them. as long as we and WFM are thinking about tools and technology that exist not within our wheelhouse. The things that create the schedules, but what other tools and technologies touch what we do and be thoughtful about that and be forthright and go forward and say, Hey, how can I help with this? How is this gonna impact the workforce? Because 90% of what businesses implement has some impact

Irina: 22:17

Yeah.

Jim: 22:18

frontline agent.

Irina: 22:20

Oh God. I am so hooked on this one because this has been my mantra always. It's not about what you're currently doing, creating shifts or making people take a call or write that email, and it's not even about the WFM tool, but as you mentioned. Even if we're talking about AHT reduction, right? Okay. What can we do? What kind of tools are there that can help the agents summarize these things better or optimize their work in order for our calculations to, to be improved or be more efficient if something gets automated during the way? I will absolutely join you with this one. I think that the WFM community is much more open and much more proactive in looking for information and reading articles, joining webinars, watching podcasts or whatever it is, so they can get that webinars, watching, podcasts or whatever daily job. Okay. So anything else before we wrap up? Any other trends that you're seeing?

Jim: 23:28

Yeah. I kind of touched on it already, but just to underscore our as it relates to technology, I'll go back to the AI conversation. I. It's a, it can be a big, scary thing. I've encouraged so many companies. Look at your WFM and your reporting teams first to implement I AI, because A), there's so much value that could be had there. B) You're most likely involving experts who will know that, right? Again, WFM folks tend to be very analytical. They know technology, they know how to do these type of things. then C) it really is a lower risk because it's behind the scenes. So really we should help advocate for AI and technology discussions, right? When they come back with this new that works on your, your desktop, let's say, Hey, how are we assessing what that's gonna do to handle time or agent satisfaction, right? When they come forward with some new HR policy? Does WFM know. When they have a new technology out there that's gonna take all of the agent calls away, right? Do we really know? And what does that tail look like? So it's all discussions that are happening. You just have to kind of push your way in a little bit, I think. But once leaders really recognize that you're interested and you have valuable input I think most of them will open their ears.

Irina: 25:02

It is interesting that you're mentioning this one, because I am having a little bit of a different reaction. I'm irritated by the AI conversations for one reason, because when I look specifically at WFM vendors and how they are talking about ai. They're literally using their same selling points for the last 20 years toward AI and talking about how we're going to have cool forecasts and we're gonna automate this and that and that, which is. Has always been their message. So it kind of blurs everything into one huge marketing bullshit and it annoys me. But to come back to your point, point, automation is inevitable and I think it gets lost into all those kind of blurry and not specific enough conversations. Even though there are a lot of companies that are very specific and. Talking about how bots or whatever are going to help these parts of the process. But I'm always saying technology is amazing. It's great. We need to leverage it. We need to implement it as much as possible. But for me, it's also very important to understand the process and the mechanics behind it because there's always these situations where technology fails. And then you're having somebody sitting in front of their laptop looking at like, what the hell is forecast? I have no idea. I'm just seeing those graphs and they're pushing out the requirement to my schedules and I have, don't have any idea what am I supposed to do now that my technology isn't working. So I would say that we need to start understanding a little bit more in depth how things are working rather than just relying they work. Okay.

Jim: 26:51

Absolutely. And you know, that's one of the things, and again, all of these tie together, but that's seat at the table conversation. Because to your point. Salespeople do the sales job, right? They come in, they try to hype you up over possibly the same product in a new light or some changes. It's our job as end users to think and provide feedback to work closely with our IT department. You know, I can tell you that I worked at places and had conversations where the WFM technology. would resign contracts and never ask the WFM team, how do you like the tool? Right? That, so just a simple conversation like that is going to be very important. And I, I go back to think expansively, you know, you made one point that I, I have a lot in conversations nowadays is, you know, hey, your forecast is gonna be really good and, and you know, you'll get to x percent. I think if WFM professionals become laser focused on one component, that well is only so deep once you get to a hundred percent, and I would argue once, especially at a larger organization, once your forecast gets to 92 plus percent, you have diminishing returns. So if I spend my whole time and my whole career focusing on a perfect forecast. I'm missing so many other components, so that's why I think it's important for us to think about technology A across the spectrum and not necessarily go too deep in on any given technology.

Irina: 28:29

I think it's a perfect way to wrap that conversation, and thank you so much. Jim,

Jim: 28:34

Sure.

Irina: 28:35

I let you go again, can you please share with everyone how they can find you, what they can chat with you about? Just giving you the word to do, maybe promote yourself a little bit more.

Jim: 28:46

Sure. I'm currently run Q List Consulting, so I work very specifically with product managers and companies on WFM strategy. It's easy enough to find on LinkedIn under QI can be reached as well on LinkedIn. And my email is jim@goq.com.

Irina: 29:07

Perfect. Thank you so much for this conversation and we'll chat soon again.

Jim: 29:12

Thank you.