The Takeover Edition!

Welcome to a very special takeover edition of WFM Unfiltered! In today’s episode, Irina switches seats to become the guest, and our host for the day, Paul, takes over the reins. It's a rare opportunity to hear Irina's full, unfiltered story—from her humble beginnings in the contact centre world to building her reputation as a thought leader in workforce management. Get ready to dive into a conversation that’s honest, raw, and surprisingly relatable.

You’ll hear Irina talk about her early struggles breaking into the industry, the personal sacrifices she made to build her career, and the powerful lessons she learned along the way. Whether it's dealing with imposter syndrome or navigating the challenges of being a young female manager, Irina’s journey is one that will resonate with many WFM professionals.

In this candid conversation, she opens up about the realities of the workforce planning world, why she’s so passionate about what she does, and the profound effect her work has on businesses and customers alike. And if you’ve ever wondered how personal struggles can shape professional success, Irina’s story will hit close to home.

Whether you're just starting out in WFM or you’re a seasoned pro, this episode is packed with invaluable insights that will leave you feeling motivated and inspired. Tune in to learn how Irina continues to challenge perceptions of WFM and how you, too, can find your ‘why’ in the work you do.

Don't miss this one—it’s not every day we get to hear the host in the hot seat! Subscribe now for more unfiltered workforce management discussions: www.youtube.com/@wfmunfiltered?sub_confirmation=1

Show Links:

RightWFM website
Email Irina
Podcast email
Podcast Directory listings
YouTube Channel

Thanks for listening.

If you'd like to contact me about the show, you can email me HERE.

If you have questions about working with me on WFM projects and Consulting, you can find The RightWFM website HERE.

Please remember to subscribe and leave a review of you've enjoyed the show!

Transcript

0:21

Hey, WFM is out there. I'm not your horse arena, Motiva, as you might've guessed, this is the WFM unfiltered. A podcast brought to you by RightWFM. And it's the place where we share the truth about workforce management. This is a special take over edition where I get to interview Irina and share her story with you. But if you're not ready for the truth, turn this off right now. I get comfortable and listen closely.

Paul: 0:48

Hello and welcome! This is a special takeover episode of WFM Unfiltered. So, as you might have guessed, I'm not Irina. I look a little bit like her, some people say. No, they

Irina: 1:03

Oh, the hair or the beard, which one?

Paul: 1:06

I was trying to So, you're trying to make yourself sound No, let's not do that. Let's not do that. Behave. Irina came to me with an idea for an episode and I said, well, why don't we do an episode where I interview you and talk to you about your own experiences and how you got where you are, because I think it's a story, having known some of it, but not all of it, and I'm keen to connect the dots, I think there's a lot that people out there who listen to this show will resonate with. So, when I say start at the beginning, I don't mean diapers and nappies, right? Like, where did your career in contact centers start, Irina? How did you get involved?

Irina: 1:49

First of all, if we start talking about nappies, it's a very fun story that I can tell you off the record. So nobody else here, but first of all, thank you so much, Paul, for doing this for me. I am feeling right now very vulnerable, and to be absolutely honest with you, I still think that I might request you to delete that episode, because I think for me it's a huge professional risk, and a personal one, and I'm still not sure how I feel about that, but I feel like, damn it, is it on my platform so I can do it

Paul: 2:27

No, it's in my studio.

Irina: 2:30

Shit. Okay, well, I should have thought about that before the recording. But yeah, to, to actually go back on your question, where did it all start? I have been on a lot of podcasts. I have shared the framework of my story quite a lot, but of course it's just the surface story. There's a lot more that's going on underneath it, but it, everything started actually. For the past, I don't know, maybe 20 years, maybe a little bit more, Bulgaria became a very hot hub for contact centers. And actually the salaries that were given in Bulgaria back at the time, and even right now, were very, very good for the standard here. So everyone that had a second language other than Bulgarian, wanted to work in a contact center. And my brother, being smarter than me, was speaking English, Bulgarian, and German. And he actually was taken for jobs just like that. So he was getting promoted actually quite fast and he's five years older than me. So I was like, Oh, you know what? When I grow up and when I get out of high school, I don't know what I want to do, but I'm gonna need some money. So I'm going to follow his steps and go into a contact center. The actual story to dig a little bit deeper is that we didn't have any money at all. Like we were in such a severe bad financial state that I really needed the job. Unfortunately, English is considered. You have to speak English anyway, so everyone speaks English. So we were not that interesting for us. So I couldn't land the job in contact centers, though. I fucking tried really, really hard. So I ended up taking a job in a software company that was promoted to me. And I'm, I was saying a bit of this story, but I'm going to say some very uncomfortable for myself. It was presented to me like a technical assistant that I was going to be doing reporting for the US office. And I'm going to do that for a limited amount of time. And gradually I'm gonna start being trained in for a career in quality assurance. Which was a great career and you know it's one that it's even better paid in Bulgaria. So I was like, Oh, you know what? I'm going to invest that time and everything would be perfect.

Paul: 5:01

How did it

Irina: 5:02

Well, Oh my God. I don't know. I honestly, a month in, I discovered that the technical reports were actually Ordering lunch for the developers, opening the door, not being given breaks, and basically being in charge for figuring out entertainment activities for everyone in the office. And there were pretty much no training at all, at least for my case. I know before me that was the path after a year, year and a half, but I didn't see any light in the tunnel. So I was getting, getting quite miserable. To top this off the, the salary was When I say bad, sustainable you really can't survive on it. And back at the time I was living with, back then, my boyfriend, and as I mentioned, my family was in a quite difficult financial situation. So I had to, Support them as well on top. So I was broke, like broke. When I say broke, nothing spare to the point where so I was working a shift that was starting 12 at noon until eight in the evening, and I had to walk to the bus, like maybe 500 meters, not such a long distance, but in the snow here in Bulgaria, It was getting very cold and I was having those boots, shoes that were very, very cheap fabric that were completely not for winter, but I didn't have money for anything else. And I remember to be able to survive, I was wrapping my feet with toilet paper, getting my feet wet, Soaking wet by the time that I end up in the office, changing the toilet paper so I can survive. And basically from that moment on, I completely ruined my immune system. For years afterwards, I've been struggling with catching colds and flu and everything that's in the air. I was catching it like every second minute. I was constantly ill, but the combination of being given constantly feedback that after four hours of work, I'm going to grab a snack. Or I'm having a break and someone is not happy, or the door rang and there was nobody to open the door, was like, ah, that's enough I need an out, whatever it is, I don't care what is it, but I need an out. So I started applying for all sorts of jobs, like back and forth, it truly did not matter, I was just applying for it. And I got a call from a contact center for a role back in the time, which was announced like planning specialists or something. And I was like, I've not heard about it before, but I don't give a shit what it is that I just read about. Yeah. So that's how it started. They, they liked me. I ended up in the contact center. I was thinking, Oh my God, finally, I made it. My dream job in a contact center, whatever it takes. I'll make it work. And that was how it all started. And ever since, my journey has been in different capacity in planning. Oh my God. Did I already make you speechless? Shall we delete it? Let's start over with the episode.

Paul: 8:20

So, you got involved in workforce planning, but what did that actually involve back then? Cause that's obviously, it's a role that's changed a lot. Were we talking spreadsheets? Was it even that good?

Irina: 8:31

Was not, oh shit, I was not prepared for this question. Well, it, it was a little bit more of a complicated story. So, I worked in a outsourcer in Bulgaria and every different department had a planning specialist assigned for this. So I had nothing to do with actual planning. I was just responsible. To figure out how annualization of hours would work and to make sure that everyone has exactly the amount of hours by law that you need to have by the end of a certain period of time, so we're not paying overtime, we're not paying fees and fines and, and, Everything else. So it was a, I would say, bullshit job because actually the strategy that I was not aware of, of course, by this point is that the contact center wanted to completely erase those planning functions. That are by department and to make a couple of people be responsible for the planning across the contact center. So there isn't the silos and the split. So what they have done is basically they introduced different tools and they made absolutely everyone who wanted to, to apply for the jobs. Even the planning people and that that's how it all started. So actually we all applied. We were like six people, I believe, but we remained probably two of them. I was one of them and I started learning how to do planning on the go. It involved spreadsheets. Complete lack of training, a lot of shouting from agents, team leads, from some of the other planning people. So it, honestly, it was so horrific, but it was still better than ordering toilet paper. I'll say that.

Paul: 10:26

It's amazing what you can figure out how to do yourself when needs must, right? You've got no other option, you've got, this is the job that you've been given to do, and it pays reasonably well, so you're going to learn to do it. How did you actually learn to do it? Is it just trial and error at that point?

Irina: 10:45

yeah, of course, there were people who were helping me along the way from different capacities. Back at the time, there were managers that were telling me, okay, this is how we're doing things for my team. But it wasn't structural in the sense of, okay, this is how you do planning. This is how you do forecasting. This is how you do real time. So a big part of it, not to say like 99 percent part of it was just reading about it, testing and trying and. I have mixed feelings because I always say you need to invest into the training. So if there is a support system that you can use, please use that support system. Back at the time there weren't even trainings that we can pay for so I can get introduced to planning. But I feel like there was a lot of good coming out from testing and trying because it allowed me to not learn the wrong ways. Because when I started it was like we need three people late shift, two people morning shift, the other can come whenever they want. And I'm always, I'm very logical person, so you need to explain me why. Certain things needs to be done in a certain way for my brain to click in and understand it. Otherwise I'll be constantly, why, why can't be five? Why can't be two? Why can't be one? Why? I don't get it.

Paul: 12:06

Or just

Irina: 12:07

And I'll be nervous. Yeah, exactly. So I started questioning why, why, why, why, why? I started experimenting and I quickly learned that the why's because nobody knew what the heck they are doing and that's why they're doing whatever they It felt like it should be the case, so yeah, test and test and error, test and error, some successes, so that's how it all started.

Paul: 12:31

I'd be interested to know then, did you feel like there was a glass ceiling because you were a woman? Because I know that that's a journey that a lot of people have gone on across the contact center industry over the last few years. Did that happen to you? Were you seen as anything other than a direct employee? It's your opinion, right? This isn't, there's nothing that can, this is just on your gut instinct, there's nobody can say for definite that it was or it wasn't, but did you feel that way?

Irina: 12:58

I, if I have to be extremely honest, I felt throughout my entire career, including right now, there has been a lot of negative situations coming out from the fact that I'm a woman and I've been made aware of that. To top it off, I'm an Eastern European, which doesn't help my case at all. So yeah, there were plenty of situations where I would not be listening to someone who is a guy and who is let's say, 45 year old guy, let's say, Western European in comparison to me, would say something that's actually dumb. If you think about it, it's a dumb thing to say in that specific situation. It doesn't have logic. It cannot help that situation, but he must know what he's talking about rather than the little lady over there that's trying to question people. And to be honest, I became manager very, very young. I was 25 years old. So there was. Also in my, my situation, negative impact is, Oh, she's too young. She doesn't know what she's talking about. And a lot of guys overall, my career have been telling me when I'm very passionate about my job and I'm passionate person. So even in my personal life, in my relationships, being professional, I just speak, I gesture, I'm a passionate person, but then I'll be given a feedback. Oh you're too emotional. Maybe because you're a woman.

Paul: 14:29

Wow.

Irina: 14:30

am not emotional. I'm just expressing myself, maybe not like a wall, not like a stone. But yeah, definitely the fact that I'm a woman, maybe, recently some people started exploiting the fact that, Oh, we need the numbers and we need to be more inclusive. No shit. You need to be more inclusive for many reasons, but not just because someone is a woman, a man, or something else. I don't know. But because you should be driven by the skills of a person. And that's one of my actual huge irritation that now we're, we're using genders and other characteristics rather than be driven by skills. But when we're talking about skills, the underlying issue that we still have that conservative opinion that guys in certain fields, like workforce management, like technical disciplines knows more than a. Stupid little women, us.

Paul: 15:30

And that's, that's compounded by a lot of us suffer from is that imposter syndrome that you talked about a couple of episodes back, right? That, that doubt in yourself that actually, am I any good at what I'm doing anyway, combined with that on top, that's going to be quite hard to deal with. So how come, how do you end up continuing on in the role with all that against you? Like, why, why move forward with the role and not find something else?

Irina: 15:55

I, oof, yeah, interesting question. I think it was actually a combination of things. First of all, it was the fact that I didn't have a safety net. I didn't have a back, whatever I was doing, I had to make it work because I had to help my parents and, and my family. Back in the time when I was becoming the manager and when my career started to progress, I was hit with a lot of other personal challenges. My father became completely disabled. He had his two legs amputated, so my mom had to stay at home taking care of him. My brother started having quite a significant mental illness, schizophrenia. And it was from from a health perspective, from personal perspective, it was so difficult that I just had to make it work somehow. But on top of that, I really, really loved what I was doing because workforce planning is a huge combination of data and numbers and people. And as I mentioned, I am really keen on logic as such, and I love logic. And I'm always trying to find the answer, the root cause, why certain things are happening. But on top of that. What is driving someone's behavior, whether it is someone is my teammates at work, the employees, or whether this is the customer. So for me, it was the perfect combination of thing to do. But if you ask me whether I have ever thought I'm going to be doing something planning related, fuck no, of course not.

Paul: 17:34

So then, moving on from that role that you had there in that kind of junior managing level position I guess, where did your corporate career end up before you decided to make the jump out of corporate? How did you get from there to where you eventually got to? I

Irina: 17:53

I think I was quite, and there it is, there is the imposter syndrome because I was just about to say I got lucky. Again, I wasn't fucking lucky, I knew what I was talking about. But I ended up applying for a job in a very small consulting company, and they actually reached out to me via LinkedIn, so, the power of LinkedIn. So, they liked me and they had an opening for a consulting position for IKEA for a major global project that I got involved with and once I started working on that project, the role was, it was small, not in general, it was a huge role for anyone. But it evolved so much more with so much more additional responsibilities that by the end of all of the project, I had to take a decision for myself. Okay. I can still remain here, but my responsibilities will shrink so much. And I'm a very ambitious person. You know me by now, I cannot sit on my butt. I need to do something. Otherwise I'm getting very low on energy. You don't want to see me when I'm in that state. So I decided to look for a new challenge. I went to work for a vendor for maybe approximately over one year, which is where I met my now husband. And at some point I was like, it's just not it. I'm not happy. I need to do something more for me, for us, for what I believe in, for my passion. And my passion was shrunk. In kind of a box that I couldn't get out of. And I started to feel very miserable to the point where we decided, okay, let's risk it all. Let's give it a try. And if it doesn't work, well, we're smart people. We're going to apply. We'll find a job. We'll find something to do. So that's how it all started with WFM.

Paul: 19:49

It's an incredibly brave thing to do and I I'm sure everybody at home. Watching along the show, like a lot of your audience are still in those corporate roles, right? Majority of people. And, and that's, for some people, that's, that's their bread and butter. Like they're quite happy in the corporate roles and they want to do that. It's not diminishing in any way. Like we need people to do those corporate roles. But equally, I bet that there's a lot of people sat at home chewing the fat on that same decision right now. Like I need to do something different. I want to get out. What's your advice to them if they're in that position where you were?

Irina: 20:27

First of all, I would say that if this is your comfort zone and you don't wanna deviate from it, and you're happy with having a corporate job, nine to five, there's nothing wrong with it. Absolutely nothing wrong with it, and everyone should be. Able and free to decide for themselves and being on your own is stressful. You know very well that you're depending on, on the market, on leads, on competition, on economy, on budgets, now, organizations, so many stuff that it is quite stressful and it's not for everyone. But what I have discovered for past year and a half since I have my company is that. There are so many incredible, absolutely incredible professionals, WFMers out there, who I can see it in them, that they have the potential, that they will be freaking successful, but it's that feeling of, what if I fail? Which I had for years, to be fair, because I've always wanted to go on my own and I've always been like, Eh, I'm not amateur enough, I don't know enough, I don't have enough network, I haven't learned enough, I don't know stuff enough, I'm gonna fail, I'm gonna do this. If you have that mindset, you are doomed to fail because you're in your own way. So my advice is just take a leap of faith. I, I really think that best things in life happen to the people that are brave. And just give it a try. There is always, there is always something that you can do if it doesn't work out, but at least you would have tried. And I'm a big believer that once, when my life is over, I don't want to look back and say, Oh, if only I have tried, so if that's your current mindset, if you can, I don't know, allow it, because of course, for families with children, it's a bit more difficult to take that step. But if it's possible, just believe in yourself. And there is such an amazing network out there that is supportive. I'm gonna be the first supporter of everyone that wants to go on their own. So just trust in yourself.

Paul: 22:40

It sounds, listening to you talk, it sounds like self awareness is something that's quite important to you personally in terms of your progression and something that's definitely helped you move beyond the things that held you back. Were you always conscious that you suffered from imposter syndrome and, and the anxiety around, being more successful? Is that something you learned later on or?

Irina: 23:06

Oh gosh, your questions.

Paul: 23:09

I do this for a living. I've done this for six years. I, I I'm curious about people. You've got to, you've got to help your audience understand you, right?

Irina: 23:17

I, but I should have went for a different host while instead of giving me, a little bit of easier way out. I think in my personality, because I'm a very strong personality, a lot of difficult things have happened to me throughout my life. Which is giving me a lot of hard exterior, but the interior were shaped of, Oh, maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe I'm not this, maybe I don't know much. Maybe I'm not smart enough, not knowledgeable enough. My accent will suck. Nobody will like me. The way I look, the way I talk, the way I, this. So this was enhanced by a lot of situations in my professional life. When I was given that feedback for the way I talk, the way I look, the way I dress you have no idea how brutal people can be and how inconsiderate or inappropriate they can also be in a professional manner because there's a difference between a feedback and a feedback. Right? Let's start there. Which kind of further gave me that, you know what? I, maybe I'm just too small, maybe I deserve not to be listened to. Maybe I should be happy where I am. And I've been given that feedback, you're Eastern European, you should be happy where you are. Right? So I think at some point, again, there were A lot of stuff going on in my personal life that were a big turning stone, like dealing with losses. My grandmother that I was extremely close to passed away. I broke up with my boyfriend. I had to look for where to live. It's just so many stuff going. wrong at the same time that I was like, you know what, I can continue being miserable, not being authentic, not being myself or I can say fuck it and give it a try and again If I try and fail, well, at least I'm gonna be comfortable and peaceful with myself that I have tried it and it was just not meant to be and it wasn't for me, but if I never do it, I'll always regret it. So I think that's how I slowly started getting out of my shell and be like, I can do it. Why not? Like, why am I so small compared to others? What makes me not worth it worse? And I started having that kind of mindset actually you are worth it. And the other thing that really helped me, to be absolutely honest with you, when you're going through that imposter syndrome, at least for me, You take the decision for everyone around you that they think you're not worth it and they think you're stupid. So you're protecting yourself from being open, from being vulnerable, because you feel like absolutely everyone will judge you and think that you're just stupid. And then I started trusting people more and opening up and sharing the bits of my story. And I realized that there is so many good people out there that, these were my own fears that I was projecting onto them. And once I started, Oh, you think I'm stupid? Well, then it's just not much. That's it. That's it, honestly. And that's how I started, I think, growing personally.

Paul: 26:40

Listening back to what you said, that you've had the success that you've had in spite of the challenges that you've had to go through, not because of them. So I think, listening to you talk about the challenges that you've had around you Being an Eastern European, being a woman, having all the challenges that you had going on at home, and your personal life. I talk to so many people that have to go through that crucible of, this is what made me. And I firmly believe that anybody who's relatively successful in business has that fire in them, because it's not a case of having the hand that you've been dealt and living with that, it's having the hand that you've been dealt and going, I don't like these cards, I'm gonna pick my own cards. And I see that fire within you. It's, it's, it's fun. And that's why I like, that's why I like working with you because it's, it's clear that you've got that, that burning desire beneath all of that. Why do you think that you still have such a deep rooted passion for WFM? in particular. You've run some amazing global projects. You've worked with some outrageously fantastic brands. Like when, when you first told me some of the, some of the brand names that you've worked with, and when you first started working together, it blew my mind that I didn't already know all of that about you. How do you? Carry on going from where you were to where you are now. What's the driving seat beneath all of that? You've mentioned kind of root causes and you have to understand why and things like that, but what do you get out of the job that you do for the clients that you work with?

Irina: 28:12

I think this also, what I get from it right now, it might also be the reason why I kicked off my solo journey as well is because our work matters. And I was so done thinking what I do on a daily basis doesn't matter, what I say doesn't matter, I don't have a voice, nobody listens to me, who I am does not matter, my work is worthless. And actually, if anyone is listening to that and it's in a situation, and I know that majority of WFMers are in the same situation when they struggle getting their message across. When they go home, cry, fight with their spouses, are miserable, and so on. I just want to say that every single little thing that you do is changing the life. And it sounds very cheesy, but I gave that example to one of my guests in the podcast a while back when my brother passed away last month, I had to arrange paperwork over the phone and I ended up talking to one extremely compassionate lady and I broke down like I was inconsolable on the phone, but the way that she handled me, In that specific moment with something very simple, very stupid, that probably I could have figured out myself, help me cope throughout the entire day. And we're making sure that our agents are there for our customers. And the reality is that our agents, ourselves, our customers, every single one of us goes through hardships, through very shitty situation with finances, family, health, and everything. And we don't know about it, but what we can do is make sure that we create the foundation and a very healthy environment to do what we can. And what we can is just be there to help with questions, with concerns, so we don't end up having one more concern on top of everything else that's happening in our lives. When I managed to. Go in organization and explain that to different stakeholders. And I see that light bulb going off and they're like, Oh shit. Oh, you're right. And they start involving their WFM teams. And I see the planners growing and getting out of their shell and becoming their confidence self. It's like for, for me, my job is done. And the other thing that I really like, and thank you so much for helping me setting up that podcast is that traditionally WFM is considered. Boring, stupid, we sit in the corner, we're boring people. We don't have hobbies. We just, we don't know why we exist even. And now I'm getting that passion in everyone that I'm talking to and I'm trying to make them go out of their shell. And I see them being very, they're lighting up. And for me, receiving even a single message on my LinkedIn saying, thank you for everything that you're doing and help me with that and that and that it helped me relate because I feel the same way. It makes it all worth it.

Paul: 31:30

Everybody does what they do because of an underlying why. And the phrase why has been overutilized in recent years. Ever since Simon Sinek, God bless him, released that, that, that great video that led us to all question our existence, but give us no idea how to get there, which is my big, I'm going to get on a rant, right? Like that, that video frustrated the hell out of me. I had it rammed down my neck in every corporate meeting we ever had. Never once did anybody share with me how to find my why, right? So what? I know you need a why. How do I get there? How do I even begin to understand why I'm passionate about what I do? And there is a journey to go on for you to find your why. And you can, you can do some things to help bring that out of yourself, but it is refreshing to hear somebody speak. You can so clearly talk about The fundamental reason why they do what they do. Cause everybody thinks it's money or it's a position or it's status or, or whatever. But to have somebody be able to say, I do it because I love to make an impact on people's lives, whether it's me directly or me influencing other people who have that impact. That is transformative for a lot of people. So if you're in WFM and you're listening to Irina's story today, just have a think about what motivates you every day. There won't, if you're working in a corporate role, it won't be everything that you do, right? It'll be bits, there'll be bits in your day, what you do that really get you out of bed. So think more about what those little bits are, because they're the really important things. And you just need to focus on doing more of those little bits every single day. That's what will make you happy. And it'll make the biggest impact. Sorry, I went off on a really deep tangent there.

Irina: 33:13

I liked it. That's all about WFM Unfiltered. You should go on a ranting.

Paul: 33:17

absolutely. Absolutely. So, look, I've really enjoyed the conversation today, Irina. You've got a tremendous story, and There's, you're only at the midpoint of your story, right? There's a whole other story ready to be written in terms of RightWFM and WFM unfiltered and whatever else you choose to do. And it would be my absolute privilege to come back and hear some more of that story in a year or two's time and understand how you've gotten where you now are in the future. But for letting me come and take over your show. I really enjoyed it. And I hope the listeners out there end up getting some, some real good value out of today's episode as well.

Irina: 33:54

Oof. Thank you. Thank you so much all about this, about hosting the podcast. I'll just end up on a note saying if there is one advice that I can give anyone, including myself, is just don't be scared about being yourself. Honestly, that's it. Just remind yourself that you need to be yourself. You need to be your authentic self. I think things will start working out. So hopefully this was not a complete disaster cause I'm so scared right now.

Paul: 34:25

Nothing to be

Irina: 34:26

how it goes. Thank you, Paul.

Paul: 34:27

You do a fantastic job. And to add to what you just said, right? If you're being yourself and you're getting pushback from the people around you, you're surrounded by the wrong people. So change who you surround yourself with, cause that's the other side of things. Thank you very much. This is WFM Unfiltered. I'm today's host, Paul, and Irina will take over episodes from next week again, as usual. Bye bye.

Irina: 34:50

Bye.