The Power of Change Management | Jenn Jones

Change management—it's more than just a buzzword. In this episode of WFM Unfiltered, Irina Matneva sits down with Jenn Jones, Director of Strategy and Workforce Management at Navidus Health Solutions, to explore the often-overlooked nuances of change management. Jenn brings a wealth of experience from her role at a leading pharmaceutical benefit management company, where she navigates the complexities of budgeting, forecasting, and strategy.

The discussion kicks off with a deep dive into the emotional aspects of change management. Jenn highlights how unaddressed emotions can derail even the most meticulously planned initiatives. Irina and Jenn also touch on the importance of communication and pre-work, explaining how these elements can make or break a project.

You’ll hear real-life examples and practical advice on how to involve operational teams effectively, ensure proper training, and identify key players who can drive successful change. This episode is packed with actionable insights that can help you navigate the complex world of change management, whether you’re in a leadership role or part of a team.

Don’t miss out on learning how to turn change into a powerful tool for growth and success. Watch the full episode and subscribe to our channel for more insights!

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Show Links:

• Jenn's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenn-jones-218b7934/

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Transcript

Irina: 0:18

Hello, everyone, and welcome to yet another episode of WFM Unfiltered, a podcast by WriteWFM. I'm your host, Irina Matneva, and I have an amazing guest with me here today, an even more amazing topic. So today, we are traveling to New York. And I have Jenn here with me. So, Jenn, how are you doing?

Jenn Jones: 0:43

I'm doing great. It's rainy but I have a smile on my face and I'm ready to go. It's Friday. How are you?

Irina: 0:48

Yes, we are going to be airing that episode on Tuesday, but it's Friday, very late for me, and you can see it in my face. The energy is basically draining. I think I'm going to need another coffee after Okay. So before we start with our topic, would you mind introducing yourself?

Jenn Jones: 1:06

Sure. Again, my name is Jenn Jones and I'm currently the Director of Strategy and Workforce Management at Navidus Health Solutions which is a pharmaceutical benefit management company. Wonderful company, wonderful people. And as it's budget season, so we're pretty much heads down and just making sure our forecasts are accurate and what we're projecting, and having lots of conversations, building relationships with operations.

Irina: 1:28

Thank you for agreeing to be with me here today. And actually, when we spoke a little bit on the back end, we discussed the topic that you came up with about change management, which is something that I'm very passionate about. And To be honest with you, the first time when I heard the term change management, it was when I was a part of a global rollout. So we had a completely separate team that was dealing with workshops about change management. And I could not understand, I could not comprehend, what the hell are they talking about, it's just, we're just changing something, why do we even have to talk about it? And then, when you start going into the different phases of implementation, that this is actually your foundation. When you're changing something, it has impact on literally everyone in the organization in a different way. And you need to be able to explain the journey to absolutely every single party. Why are you changing? What are you changing for? What will happen from tomorrow? And this is where a lot of projects actually fail because we're failing to adopt that change. So Can you please share what's your view on the change management

Jenn Jones: 2:42

Change management, I think, is very crucial to our work of life, and I say that as a, just as a human, and as a business, it's all the time, so I think change management happens whether we like it or not, but it's heavily important to understand the concept. Reason for that is, When we go into business, we have departments that help us through that change. There's implementation teams that help us through that change and guide us. In some ways, there's not a follow up process sometimes, and also it doesn't help you navigate your emotion, and in your real life, and when we're outside of work, when we go through change management, there isn't that department that helps you guide yourself through those changes. And so all those emotions that come through have never been adjusted. And so when you finally do go through that change management at work, you have no idea, you don't have an idea of how to check those emotions. So I think it's very important that change management is talked about. I think it's very important to acknowledge that we all experience change in different ways. Angry, happy, sad. It just depends on the convenience of the change, if it's for you and we're changing for you, you tend to be happy. If it's a change against your better judgment, you usually don't take it very well. And so you have to learn to work your way around it. So I love change management. I love talking to people about it to get their perspectives and sometimes tips and tricks on how to deal with it and work through it. But It's definitely something that happens regardless if we want to or don't.

Irina: 4:10

You know what? I love that you're talking about the emotional aspect because there is a very conservative opinion out there that I'm going to throw right back at you. It's If we're paying you to do a certain job, shouldn't you be just on board with absolutely everything that we decided as a company to implement because you're being paid for that job? So why should we invest even more into you to accept decision that has been done higher up?

Jenn Jones: 4:40

It's a good question, I smile because I think of that as yes men, or yes women, and I, and to be honest with you, it depends on the company. If they hired you to be that yes person, then they're expecting you to just go with every punch that's coming, not allowing you to speak to the risk and all that's coming along with it. And then at the end of the day, They come back with the results they didn't want, and they're like, Oh, why did this not happen? But if you were hired into a place where you are free to challenge, you are free to harness your opinions through that change management process and actually align the risks and data all together and share that openly. That change management process works out much better because your expectations and results will change, and everything is out in the open. With versus you just saying, Oh yeah, we're going to change. Cool. I'm down with this. Even if you know it's not going to work out. And you say nothing, you're just going with the flow. The question of accountability is always going to come back to you. Why didn't you say something? Even though they didn't hire you to say something, why didn't you say something?

Irina: 5:44

That's also important from another perspective. We have all been in different operational roles that the thing that annoys us the most is When we do our job and from one day to another, somebody comes and say, oh, because you did not do your job well, and that's why we're introducing a new tool to help you. But there is that lack of communication. How did you decide on that? Why didn't you involve? Who did you involve? What is going to change? Why are we assuming that things are going wrong? And If we bring the conversation to WSFM software, the thing that happens so often is because of that mismanagement of expectation, miscommunication, people that start using the software start hating it and start basically working against it. They start Basically sabotage the process and they make sure that they're going to remain with their current ways of working. Whilst it's never the tool's fault. Of course they can have limitations, but most often than not is how is it used? What is it used? Have you been trained? Have you been experienced? Can you explain what will change for you, for your agents, for your team leads, what would your journey look I wanted to ask you about something, what the, how the hell do we work with that? Who is responsible to drive that in the organization?

Jenn Jones: 7:05

Great question. I think it's a lottery question, if we answer, if we can get the answer to that, then we know all, but I believe it's important to think it through a process, they let them models out there, racy models. There's tons of different ways to try to determine who's accountable and who's responsible for different things. And I was just talking to my my current leader about this. Because it's really hard when you have two accountable people in the same space, because if they're, one person is not happy, but the other person is, one person's not going to want to take accountability and vice versa. So you really have to think about the question, what is the desired outcome? Who owns the most piece of the pie of that desired outcome? And that will help you learn to who's going to be most accountable. That will help you tie it to which department's going to be impacted the most, so it's, it just depends on the situation. Perfect example. Let's bring on a telephony program, When you think of stakeholders and AIM training and things like that, project management comes into play, but who's going to be responsible for the most impacted party? Is it your operations leader or is it your customer service department leader? Two very separate entities, but they operate in the same function. It's still part of operations, majority of the time, but who's gonna be responsible for ensuring that telephony program is up and running, efficient, moving everybody into it? Who's responsible for that?

Irina: 8:38

But it's interesting that you're saying that because now I started thinking my my journey with change management aspect is that usually we do not invest a lot of time to do the pre work, to understand exactly what is changing. So we start with the rollout. We start with the design of your new system, whether it's telephony, CRM, or WFM, doesn't matter. And then at some point we start adapting to, oh, you're going to get training, you're going to get this, you're going to get that. But this is a reactive approach. We just don't say, okay, you know what, we're changing this. To this, for this and that reason, this is what the expectation is for every single party. And we're not proactively driving that approach. So I was actually wondering, who instigated that? If you think about it, who should come into play if it's not decided on, I don't know, contact center manager level or operations manager level. Who is in charge of saying, you know what, we're missing a link here.

Jenn Jones: 9:41

A very strong leader, somebody who sees the gap has to come in and help make that decision. It's a very hard scenario. What I would agree with you on is most times the rollout already happens and then you have to adjust to it, like you didn't make, you may not have helped make that decision, but the rollout is happening now, what do you do? Totally agree with that. I believe for me, depending on your department, who you're leading, you actually have to take it back and be like, what is the desired outcome that's happening through this rollout? And how is it impacting us and our responsibilities? And then you have to turn it back around and bring it back to whoever made the decision. Said, hey, as we're rolling this out, I have found this, and this, to be good and bad. This is how we're working through those things, what is your suggestion to work through those things at a higher level based on how this impacts you? So it's, there's no, Easy answer to who's responsible and accountable for those pieces once it rolls out. Wish it was, but normally a strong leader comes in from somewhere, whether that be PMs or the executive teams and notices there's a gap within the rollout and comes in to identify it, understands why, and then starts to make the decision as to what's happening during this rollout. Is it even necessary and what do we miss and how do we learn?

Irina: 11:05

For me, I think one of the biggest mistake is actually not involving people that are in the operations department that are actually executing the job because you're technically. Enforcing something new to them without explaining them what to expect, but then your expectation is that they're going to be able to execute their job in a better way, because usually when we're talking about digital solutions, for example, or any sort of transformation, we do it because we're growing. We do it because we need more efficiency. We do it because we need to Some kind of cost cuts and, or our contracts, for example, are expiring. So you're looking for a new solution. I actually have been involved with the implementation couple of months ago. And it was so sad. I was reviewing the setup with, and this is something that happens literally every single time. I was reviewing the setup with the team and I was asking. Why are you doing that? We don't know. Why is that working like that? We don't know. What do you mean you don't know? What happened during your training? We didn't have a training. And I was like, how was decided? We don't know. And I was like, how do you do your job? How? We're like we ask for support and we don't get it. You know what? That's so sad because you're asking for results from the very same people that you're importing something to them, but you don't involve them at all

Jenn Jones: 12:32

Oh, yeah. Which is comical, cause you're like, alright, so this is rolling out, I have a list of questions, boom, and then when every answer to your question is I'm not sure, not my department, I don't know, maybe, you're like oh, okay. Who do I go to get some of these answers? I don't know. And that's the part of change management where the emotions tie in that we are majority of the time not coached on, and so your face changes, your tone changes, and you're like, what in blazes is going on right now? Because you still have to go through this rollout and have expectations of the performance results that you're supposed to deliver. Yeah,

Irina: 13:14

know what? I think the worst part for you from employee perspective is that Yes you're behaving based on your emotions, but you're trying to do your best, but you're looked as you're sabotaging the process when in fact you just are left clueless to sort stuff out yourself. But it's actually perceived like, oh, you're working against the company or you don't have the company's best interests and you don't believe in our. Corporate strategy or whatever. No, I just don't get it. I really don't know what to do right now.

Jenn Jones: 13:50

where do you start? Like, where do you begin to even, cause you're still at square zero, so where do you begin to figure out those answers to your question, but also the project, cause technically you have to figure out how this impacts and come to you, how you're going to adjust, and you're like, I just want to know where I start with answer to question one, please.

Irina: 14:13

Yeah. I think that it's okay if you're talking about global organizations because you obviously have teams, so you can allocate someone to do that kind of initiatives for other smaller organizations. It's very difficult because of the size, because of the budget, because what type. So what do we do, Jenn?

Jenn Jones: 14:32

What we advise people to on this one? But a great question on a Friday. Let me tell you. your advice shouldn't be please quit. You shouldn't actually do that. So what do we What has helped me, what I'll say has helped me is I went through a process called AIM, aIM training. And it was very helpful to understand what does it mean to be an impacted person? And so whenever you come across, and it's probably like a project management scope, cause anytime there's a rollout, there's a hidden project that all of a sudden comes upon you. So if something's rolled out, that's a hidden project for you to understand what was rolled out. How are you going to implement it across your position on your department, or yourself, and then understand what those impacts are so you can still deliver and perform, how does it affect you? So my advice to everybody would be, is take a step back, get yourself emotionally out of this, because it doesn't matter why it was rolled out to you. It already is, what you mostly are concerned is what is it and when is it going to be implemented fully so that way you understand What you need to focus on, that's, that would be my first piece of advice. Second piece of advice is you need to know who your main player is in the game, and usually, it's listed on that rollout. It was like, usually it's a nice and fancy paragraph of this person came up with this magical beans idea, and it's gonna be wonderful. And you start there, and you're like, okay, great. And then somewhere in small lettering, in this nice, beautiful paragraph, is that this will impact such and such, and we are expected to perform such and such. That's where you need to key into to be like, okay, this is a performance thing, this is where I impact the performance, this is me, and identify that, and then understand what your processes are that impact that performance at a base level. So take out the emotion, doesn't matter why it happened it doesn't matter who made the decision overall and didn't talk to you about it, doesn't matter. What is it, and when is it going to happen, and start there. Then understand who is, came up with the idea the topic, and then understand what is the expected impact is going to be in that small lettering to determine what your next steps are. So those would be my top two pieces outside of seeing the key players so you know exactly. What this is going to be. Final note is the key players are important. If you see a CEO on there, it is not the CEO majority of the time. It is, they may be a sponsor, and the money is coming from them, but that does not necessarily mean that they're leading these meetings, so you might have to do a little bit more research. Versus, if this is say an operations director, That's a much better thought process to think, okay, they are really going to be involved in this process. So it's going to be better to reach out to them cause they'll know they're more in the weeds. They'll understand the questions that are going to come to them. So keep that in mind as well.

Irina: 17:43

I love your advice. And this is such a good also pre work and a way to set up your process to be a success rather than a fail. And I actually when I asked you the question, had the similar thought, like for me, this is also a big part of the pre work to identify what is it that you're going to do, who is going to be involved, how is it going to be involved, who is going to be, as you mentioned, accountable for everything. And I personally think that when you have done that bit and when you have identified, okay, those are my key players. They're going to be impacted in whatever type of way. I would say that just. Take people from the different groups, involve them in the journey to be ambassadors because they would be able to relate to their co workers that are executing their job and mention, okay, we're doing that so it can help us in this and this way, or this is going to be our new ways of working or our new process or what have you, but Usually what happens is that we're organizing a big project for whatever reason is decided, and then it's just landed upon us and we're expecting to cheer and fully embrace it when we don't understand it. And the thing that I keep coming back that I absolutely love that you started with that is emotion because we are not yet working completely with AI and with computers, no matter what we're paying, no matter who we're paying. People are emotional human beings, and they're going to react one way or another. And if we continue disregarding that part of humanity, Okay,

Jenn Jones: 19:26

You're completely correct and it's going to happen. There's always going to be something that you found out via email or word of mouth that should have been told to you and what you're expecting is a one on one meeting that was scheduled six months ahead of time and it was laid out perfectly to you, so when it's not, that already gives you an it already heightens you. It's just ah. Give me that meeting? What? And I have to find out like this?

Irina: 19:55

That, do you know what I'm thinking? When we're talking about change management, it's a consistent effort. It's not one of meetings like we have bought a new WFM tool. Good luck. There will be training. Okay. Great. Amazing.

Jenn Jones: 20:12

Thanks. Which is a good point. That's why the emotion part is so important because it's, you can be consistently hit with multiple things. That you have to adapt to. And in our space that's normal. And we're constantly adapting to changes in forecasts and changes in volume and changes in people and people's behaviors. And we're constantly doing these things. Not everybody is. So when we are approaching change management for something we need to implement, we have to keep that in mind because I think sometimes we forget that not everybody is multitasking as much as we are and doing nine things at one time, we just. Automatically think that, okay, we're doing it. So they should be able to do it. So i'm going to implement this new real time adherence strategy to improve efficiency And we're going to implement it in a month, but it's going to require the supervisors to do this and this So we go to implement it and they're like, whoa This is going to increase my admin time and blah blah blah and you're like what do you mean? I do this every day. So Taking the emotions from other people is also something we should consider You and be trained on, or at least talk through, and just being graceful to other people's areas when we also deliver a change.

Irina: 21:30

And this is, oh God, such a key point because when we're talking about implementation of whatever type of change, with the digital tool, with the process, with what have you, we need to understand that if we don't involve Our people correctly, that change will impact your customers. And I think this is the part that we're lacking because we're thinking, okay, but we invested that amount of money and you should be on board because our strategy is this and this. Yes. But if you do not drive that process in the right way, will impact your customer and that's a change that you don't want to see. The way that whether the, your agents are going to be stressed, something is not going to be working. They're going to be snappy. We're not going to be able to handle customers. We're going to start losing business. And then we're going into that spiral of what the hell is happening.

Jenn Jones: 22:22

Oh yeah, that's a great point. Like the external impact to customers is huge. That's normally not thought about. It's thought about idealistically, but it's not in a reality phase of it. So that's a great point. And then when it does happen and it's a negative impact, now what? Like what happens now?

Irina: 22:42

And the beauty is that then we're starting to look back and point fingers like, Oh, why is that working like that? We should have done that pre work by doing exactly the steps that you have mentioned involving the different people, make people accountable. So we know our scenarios, so we know what to expect. And you know that very well that usually on go live days, it's chaos.

Jenn Jones: 23:06

Oh yeah.

Irina: 23:07

There's something going wrong. Everyone is stressed. People don't sleep. We're working over the night to make cutovers. It's crazy journey. And a lot of things, to be honest, can be, or at least the impact can be lessened for so many things. If we only do our.

Jenn Jones: 23:25

Absolutely. And I think that's the key part there, is the due diligence and being intentional to do it. That's a big one.

Irina: 23:33

Thank you so much, Jenn, for joining me for this conversation and thank you for bringing up that topic because this is one that I'm absolutely crazy about. And I think it's one of these that are absolutely fundamental and nobody's paying attention to them because it's eh. Yeah. Why is that important? So thank you for actually raising the awareness and clearing the picture of why and how, and what can we do if we decide to apply any sort of change in the company.

Jenn Jones: 24:04

Thank you for having me. I love this conversation. So I'm sure we'll have more pieces of it down the road, but thank you so much for having me.

Irina: 24:11

Thank you as well.